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 Re: Serializer encoder problem
 
 10/27/2007 12:18:45 AM
rpg
35 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem
 ringo wrote

Try this. Just rotate the wheel by hand 1 revolution and see what it returns. I would assume this would be as inconsistent as running with PWM, but who knows, maybe it will be a clue.

Ringo



OK, I've done the experiment.  With both encoders connected, one to each encoder port on the Serializer, manually turning each wheel one full revolution results in a count of 44 on each channel using the getenc 1 2 command.  So the counters seem to be working OK when the wheels aren't turning under power.  So now I run the motors one at a time using either pwm 1:50 or pwm 2:50 -- slow enough that I can eyeball one revolution and stop the motor to get a count.  In this case, I get counts of 44 for channel 1 and 187 for channel 2.  So there is clearly something wrong with the count on channel 2 when the motor is running.

Does this give you a clue?

--patrick

 10/27/2007 1:01:46 PM
ringo
36 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem
I'm assuming the 44 is the correct number and it is consistent?
Is the 187 consistent, or does it vary alot? I'm wandering if it is noise from the motors causing the seriialzer to think there are encoder ticks when there are not. The code that reads the encoders does not know if the motors are running or not, so the fact that you get different readings tells me it is not Firmware related, but probably hardware.  Can you add a couple capacitors to the motor leads to see if it helps? Put 1 from each motor lead to the case of the motor, and 1 between the motor leads. Do this for both motors. a .001uf or .01uf should be fine.
 
 
1 other question, are you using the on-board H-bridges? If so, what motors are you using and  how much current do they pull?

Ringo Davis, Hardware Technical Lead RoboticsConnection.com
 10/27/2007 6:05:08 PM
rpg
35 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem
Hi Ringo,

Thanks for the quick response.   I just did a sequence of single rotation measurements on the flaky encoder channel (port 2) at pwm 2:50 and got counts of 110, 122, 129, 109.  Not sure why the numbers are all now less than the 187 I got earlier.  The count on the good channel for a single rotation is always 44 which is the correct count.   Here is another interesting fact:  if I run *both* wheels together, I get really big counts on the bad channel.  For example, two measurements for one revolution at a speed of pwm 1:50 2:50 gave me counts of 833 and 884 on port 2.  This is independent of the speed of the good channel:  running a test at pwm 1:100 2:50 gave a count of 834 on the bad channel.  Spinning the bad channel backward while spinning the good channel forward had another large effect--pwm 1:50 2:-50 gave a count of -2002 on channel 2.  Throughout all of these tests, the count on the good channel remains accurate.

Yes, I am using the H-bridges on the Serializer.  I have already added the capacitors that came with the motors.  I even twisted each pair of leads together nice and tight.  The motors I am using are 7.2 V Banebots whose specs can be seen at: http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/4227-100-1-28mm-Planetary-Gearmotor-RS-385-Motor.aspx?  For power, I am using a Li-Ion battery pack (Power Station from Batterygeek) set to 9V and connected to a pair of regulators (n parallel) set for about 7.8 V output.  I am running all my tests with the wheels off the floor so there is little load on the motors.  The measured current with both motors running at pwm 1:50 2:50 is only 0.6A.

What puzzles me is that all the trouble is tied to the encoder port on the Serializer.  For example, if I switch the motor leads to swap left and right motor IDs, the bad count stays with encoder port 2 on the Serializer.

--patrick



 10/29/2007 12:57:08 PM
ringo
36 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem

This is a strange problem. The fact that it works without the motor being powered means to me that it is probably either a power issue or a noise issue. Why the problem stays with 1 port and not another is weird. Do you happen to have a different (smaller) motor you can try and see what happens? Any chance you have an O-scope you can use to look at the encoder signals?

Someone else had a problem with the board acting weird using motors  sorta like these and it was fixed by adding a large capacitor at the battery inputs to the serializer. Do you happen to have something like a 470uf or bigger cap you can try? If not let me know, I probably have something in my junk pile I can mail you to see if it helps.

Once we figure out what the issue is, there will be another problem. These motors draw .5A with no load, but 17A at stall, so that means with some load the current can quickly go above the serializers capacity. After we get the encoder problem solved, you are going to have to change to smaller motors or go to a bigger H-bridge, so It may be worth it to make that decision now in case that change fixes the problem. We have some 10A Dual H-bridges on the site that will probably work with these motors ok. I call them 10A to be conservative. All the parts are rated for 17A for very short times, so as long as your software monitors your wheels and stops if the wheels stall you are probably ok.

Ringo

 


Ringo Davis, Hardware Technical Lead RoboticsConnection.com
 10/29/2007 1:26:18 PM
rpg
35 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem
OK, I have piles of capacitors so I'll try something around 470uf or bigger later today.  Also, I have a Robot Power Scorpion XL H-Bridge speed controller that I was probably going to use anyway so I'll try that too.  Finally, as it turns out, I also have smaller motors (the same ones you sell for the Traxster) so I can try that too--though I'll need the bigger motors and currents in the long run (it's gonna be about a 10-12 lb robot).  Will post my findings as soon as I know the results.

--patrick


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