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 Re: Serializer encoder problem
 
 10/30/2007 1:34:53 PM
rpg
35 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem
Hi again Ringo,

Would you please clarify the 4A rating on the Serializer's onboard H-bridges?  I looked at the documentation and it just says they are "rated at 4A".  For example, is the 4 amp limit continuous or peak?  And for roughly how long?

Thanks,
patrick

 10/30/2007 2:15:20 PM
ringo
36 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem

4 Amps is peak, I have never timed how long it will take to damage one, but probably not long. Attaching a heatsink will help in that case.

The H-bridges from robot power look like they will work, but you will need a circuit in between the Serializer and the H-bridge to take the PWM and Dir signals and turn them into the proper signals. You should be able to do this with 1  7402 IC per H-bridge. Something like this.

logic.JPG

 


Ringo Davis, Hardware Technical Lead RoboticsConnection.com
 10/31/2007 10:20:51 AM
rpg
35 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem
Many thanks for the circuit!  I will try it out once I get to the point of needing the higher current H-bridge.  In the meantime, I can live with my smaller motors (same ones as on the Traxster) and just use the Serializer's onboard H-bridges.  Just to clarify: regarding the 10A dual H-bridge you sell on your site, does it really *have* to have a 12-24V power supply, or will it run on less?  I ask because many of the other H-bridges out there tend to run on a fairly large range such as 4.8-24V and I'd love to use your PWM-compatible H-bridges at 7.2V (or even 8.4V as I have an 8.4V RC battery pack).

The smaller motors with built-in encoder (US Digital) work great with the Serializer--no problem with noise like I am getting with the larger BaneBots motors.  Just to be sure, I completed the capacitor experiment with the larger motors.  I picked up three 470uf and three 1000uf capacitors.  In the first experiment, I put just one of the capacitors across the battery terminals to the Serializer.  While this reduced the magitude of the erroneous encoder count on port 2 with one motor running, it did not fix the wild readings when both motors were running.  Then I tried connecting one of the caps across a motor terminal and this had all sorts of positive effects.  (a) the motor ran faster at the same PWM setting, (b) the annoying high pitched whistling at lower speed settings disappeared and (c) the error in the channel 2 encoder count was almost eliminated.  HOWEVER, with a capacitor connected across the motor terminals in this way, the chip behind that terminal heated up very quickly and got quite hot.  So after verifying this behavior with all possible permutations of capacitors on or off the two motor terminals and/or battery terminal, I gave up since I didn't want to blow up the Serializer.

In conclusion, since I will need the external H-bridge to run the larger motors at higher currents anyway, there doesn't seem to be any point trying to fix the problem--I'll just use the smaller motors for now.

Once again, thanks for all your suggestions and help trying to debug this problem!  Seems like, in the end, the Serializer is just fine and there is something very odd about the noise being generated by these motors.

--patrick

 10/31/2007 10:53:55 AM
ringo
36 posts


Re: Serializer encoder problem

Be carefull putting a large cap across motor terminals. A cap like that is polorized, and if you reverse the motor diection it can explode. Not a knock down the house kind of explosion, but a (why is the cat hiding in the closet) kind of explosion. I would not want to be holding onto the cap when that happend.

As for my H-bridge, I use an International Rectifier IR2184 to dive the H-bridge. It requires 10-20V to run (or it will definitely not run). I put a 12V regulator on board so It can be used at 24V, but that means it drops a volt or so at lower voltages, so if you put 12V on it, 11'ish will get to the 2184 and it will still run. I don't think it will work at all below 10.

Ringo

 


Ringo Davis, Hardware Technical Lead RoboticsConnection.com
 10/31/2007 11:02:20 AM
jason
158 posts
5th


Re: Serializer encoder problem

Patrick,

We too appreciate you taking the time to thoroughly investigate the problem, and take logical steps to solving the problem you were seeing w/ the banebot motors.  This is of great help to us, and other customers!

Best Regards!


Jason Summerour
President,
Summerour Robotics Corp
Microsoft MVP
www.roboticsconnection.com
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